These are not our crimes

CassandraNORI

Ireland allows self id which means anyone can claim to be whichever sex they choose (some call it gender but the correct word is sex). This person is being reported as a woman. I knew when I read the headline that it wouldn’t be a woman. This person will most likely be jailed with women.

https://www.thejournal.ie/woman-jailed-criminal-court-5392090-Mar2021/

LadySybilVimes

I thought that was going to be an article about Barbie Kardashian who attacked a social worker and nearly ripped her eyelid off and was then housed with women in jail but it’s someone else.

It amazes me how soft-hearted judges are to transwomen with child pornography. It’s really marked. I mean, this quote from the article: ““I don’t think she is a bad person but she committed serious offences and the court must punish her for her misbehaviour,” said Judge Nolan.”

I do think she’s a bad person. A terrible person. She involved herself in producing and distributing child pornography. No good person does that.

Morrigan

I was talking to someone I know who works with violent offenders (male bodied) the other day. She told me that many of them are currently in the process of transitioning so that they will be held elsewhere. These are people who have committed sordid and violent crimes against women and children, including rape and murder. I can’t believe there is any suggestion that people with this kind of profile might be housed in female prisons. If you did your crime as a male, you should do your time as a male, even if you do transition. I do wonder if there are any transitioning female bodied prisoners who want to be held in male prisons.

And yes, they will be fucking up the statistics. It will start to look like women are very capable of committing rape and murder on a small but regular basis.

Heyho2

I think it’s Victoria that’s forging ahead with self ID? It’s extremely tricky terrain that needs extreme caution.

NotSure

This is an interesting concept. On one level, it looks like the criminal is wanting to change sex to get an easier go at prison. But how do we know if their behaviour stemmed from not being ok in their own body? Or maybe a heap of female hormones will tone their anger and violence down to an acceptable level?

I think it is such a complex issue. On one hand, people should be able to identify how they want. But then will people take advantage of it, is if fair in things like sport when males are faster and stronger than women and will it put females more at a disadvantage.

ALittleBitter

NotSure I agree it’s a complex issue. There’s still a lot of research and discussion needed on many trans issues IMO but it doesn’t seem to be happening. Legislation is being pushed through without that debate because anyone who questions it is slammed as a bigot.

CallMeAl

NotSure

I reckon all of those things are true - some trying to dodge the prison system, some involved in crime due to body issues (actually not sure about this one, dysphoria can be horrible but I’m not sure if it makes people violent), and female hormones will probably impact their violent offending.

Incredibly complex. There are going to need to be different rules for different areas (prisons, womens shelters, sports, toilets) and that’s going to be complex to negotiate already, let alone with the amount of silencing that happens.

WidowWyncke

It’s often complicated and needs examination by unbiased and extensive research.

Just regarding hormone manipulation and sex offenders (which was the OP), it has limited effectiveness.

There certainly hasn’t been enough research AFAIK to suggest it will have a positive effect.

squeekums

Disgusting, should be jailed as a male AND longer than 3 bloody years

Didnt we get told people will never go trans for this…… being trans wont get them jailed in a better place for less time

and we the crazy transphobes…….

Morrigan

Yeah the person I was talking to said it was a surprising number. She thought their motives were pretty straightforward, but she is not a psychologist or anything.

squeekums

Morrigan it wouldnt be hard for her to read between the lines, knowing what she would from years of working in the field

Chookas

I could probably go with a ‘third’ space, but I really don’t think it’s ok to put them in a women’s prison. I think Canada is having a big problem with this atm, trans woman being transferred over after violent crimes and then attacking women in prison.

LadySybilVimes

I’m not okay with male bodied people in women’s prisons especially when so many women in prison have experienced violence from men through their lives. I’m definitely not okay with female bodied people ending up in men’s jails either. They’d be immediate targets for sexual assault.

I’m pretty dubious about female hormones reducing criminal offending in this population. I don’t know if there’s any evidence for that?

Edited for spelling

CassandraNORI

This is why more research and open debate should be encouraged - the only study I know of is a Swedish one that indicated that even post-op transwomen retained male offending rates if not showed an increase.

Either way, opening up female spaces to male bodies people is never a good idea - too many predatory males out there who leap at any loopholes to access women and children. Let’s not pretend it doesn’t happen. That’s a good place to start.

I saw a great tweet recently with which I entirely agree - but first we need to admit (well, some people need to accept and admit) that there ARE spaces where sex matters.

Morrigan

Even if hormones etc did make a difference, a lowered rate of offending doesn’t make any difference to any new victims. I read once, many years go and pre internet, that the reason they don’t use chemical or actual castration for rapists is that you don’t have to use a penis to rape someone and that can be worse.

WidowWyncke

The impulse to abuse is still there even though libido may be reduced and they are impotent.

Not having a working penis is no obstacle.

https://www.cochrane.org/CD007989/BEHAV_drug-treatments-for-sexual-offenders-or-those-at-risk-of-offending

CassandraNORI

This is an excellent summary of why sex matters in recording crime - particularly sex crimes:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1389325893651271689.html

‘But the real point is that the data are so corrupted that we do not know. The data are now useless. They cannot be used to inform service planning & development.

Services cannot respond in a way that will protect children. Services cannot respond in a way that will maximise rehabilitation & minimise reoffending.

This is why language matters. This is why sex matters. This is why we cannot substitute self ID for sex.‘

CassandraNORI

You would be forgiven for believing that the paedophile being referred to in this article is an adult human female:

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/bolton/19050397.woman-paedophile-distributed-indecent-pictures-children/

But you would be wrong. Scroll to the bottom to read about Anna.

https://transcrimeuk.com/2021/01/31/anna-mckone/

We have to make sure this doesn’t come to Australia.

Morrigan

Maybe we can have both in future - assigned sex, M, gender F.