Knives at schools

AnnHiggins

what do people think of this?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-18/sikh-community-react-to-nsw-education-religious-knife-ban/100145496

the first i read about the issue was a headline in smh (i think) to the effect “NSW premier gob smacked that knives were allowed in schools” - and i thought “well, yeh, so am I” - it kind of seems a no brainer that weapons of any description would be banned. students can apparently have a knife to assist with eating (maybe something to peel an apple or an orange?) - but nothing that could inflict serious damage i gather. I had no idea about the religious purpose that knives served in the Sikh community. it’s a hard one, and seems it wasn’t handled well by the Department - but i think - notwithstanding the religious and cultural sensitivities involved - that i’m swaying in favour of the ban. I wonder how much damage these religious knives could inflict though?

Heyho2

Yeah. I don’t think knives should be at school, and they need to find a workaround that works for their religion. I don’t agree with France’s banning of things like the hijab and crosses at schools. I do think it’s important for people who are religious to be able follow their religion… but not with actual weapons.

squeekums

No knives religious or not, what a piss weak excuse really.

The kid using it to stab someone don’t care if it religious or not

Chookas

Apparently the work around they’ve used overseas is to make them shorter and made knives that can’t be unsheathed. Apparently to the Sikhs, they are very important.

Heyho2

I do like the symbolism behind them that they talk about in the article. But yeah, not so great if you are actually using them. My first thought for a workaround was making plastic ones 😅

NightHawk

Nope, no knives at school.

PuddingPlease

I think the idea of telling the entire community that they must cease what, I gather, is an essential religious practice from tomorrow is an appalling, knee-jerk reaction on the part of the state government.

If they want to discuss work-arounds in light of todays incident then there are ways to do that but announcing an immediate ban on a practice that has been followed for fifty years in Australia without incident is pretty evidently an overreaction to one incident. We’re not talking about a loop-hole that allows bikies to carry knives on a false pretext, this is an exception to existing rules that recognises the difference between a flick-knife and a kirpan.

There is no time for students to find an acceptable alternative and it has the potential to result in students missing school until some sort of alternative can be reached. To me it smacks of an embattled liberal government looking for a minority community to harass in order to appease the uglier parts of their base.

squeekums

PuddingPlease

see the kid who has it for a religious purpose may never use it, no issue

the kid that knows its there, steals it and uses it, well…. they dgaf if its significant or religious, it stabs, job done

im politically pretty neutral, all as bad as one another type BUT i’d happily support any ban on knives in schools. My religious tolerance only goes so far and it dont extend to weapons. I struggle to think why it would be needed by a CHILD for religious purpose. I sure as shit dont want sacrifices on school property either

CallMeAl

squeekums the kid that knows its there, steals it and uses it, well

It’s worn on the body, it’s not like it’s kept in their school bags or something. I’d bet it would be easier to steal one from the school canteen than from the kid wearing it.

I do agree that now that it’s been used, something will have to be done. But a phase out period is appropriate.

PuddingPlease

All valid concerns but for a religious practice that has been unquestioned in Australia for decades, more notice is required in my view to allow people to find permitted alternatives.

It’s got nothing to do with ritual sacrifice or anything of that nature.

CallMeAl

It just occurred to me that the kid who did this must be feeling so guilty. Imagine being ‘to blame’ (even if not to blame, the cause) of getting your entire community’s religious accessory banned from all schools in the state. I hope he’s got some good support.

Dawnshade

I don’t understand the religious practice but as a parent I support a hard ban ‘no knives at school’. I’m surprised this was not already in practice. I thought you werent even allowed to carry a knife around in public unless you were in certain circumstances.

The comparison made in the article about ‘you dont close pubs because people get glassed’ is ridiculous, no one is saying we should close schools over this AND they actually have removed glass from some venues for that reason.

PuddingPlease

Dawnshade

I don’t think it’s a ridiculous comparison. His point is that this practice isn’t new in Australia and a single violent incident would not normally result in the immediate banning of something that is a recognised religious cultural practice in Australia.

I thought it was a bit gross of the NSW premier to talk about the matter publicly as though it was some sort of shifty loophole that they were exploiting. I’m sure she’s perfectly happy to rock up to a photo op when the Sikhs are handing out free food to bushfire victims and emergency service workers.

Whatever happened at the school in question is clearly terrible but whole communities aren’t normally thrown under the bus like this when something tragic occurs at a secondary school.

Dawnshade

It may not be new, but for me its more I had no idea it was happening and would not have agreed to kids having knives in school if I knew it was happening, regardless of the reason. Now that I know it is happening and the worse case scenario has happened, I would want these knives removed from schools immediately.

PuddingPlease

So I suppose my view is that freedom to practice ones religion and freedom of association are not something that the majority of people should need to agree to. I don’t think people should actually get any say in who their children go to school with or how those people practice their faith.

Any risk to other students needs to be managed by schools and authorities but it isn’t possible to eliminate all risks posed by other people in a school environment. Not in a public school anyway. And that’s a good thing because everyone benefits from an environment that reflects the diversity of modern life.

Obviously there are limitations but a single stabbing incident in a single school in 50+ years makes it impossible to really argue that this particular practice creates a tangible risk for other students. We couldn’t feasibly uphold that standard more broadly or there would be no objects permitted in schools at all.

squeekums

PuddingPlease So I suppose my view is that freedom to practice ones religion and freedom of association are not something that the majority of people should need to agree to. I don’t think people should actually get any say in who their children go to school with or how those people practice their faith.

see, i dont think saying “but religion” is a valid reason to carry a knife. Religion gets too much of a free pass

I have to wonder about ANY faith that deems a knife necessary to practice the faith. I just cant trust that

Marmalade

I’m normally a sooky lala let’s be nice type person but someone bring a knife to school for whatever reason is a no from me. Should have been sorted years ago before this incident though.

AnnHiggins

yeh - i don’t know - i don’t want to crap on a marginalised community - and yes, it’s relevant that this is an isolated incident in however many years of Australian schools having children attend who are Sikhs. it’s interesting though - i was reading elsewhere that the TSA would not allow these knives to be on the person or in hand luggage on a flight, they can be in checked luggage though (which is perfectly reasonable) - not sure what the rules are in Australia for flights, i wonder if we don’t want them in a plane cabin do we want them at schools with our children? could perhaps the sikh kids bring them to school - to be safeguarded at the principals office during class and lunch - they get them back when they go home. it seems comparable to a “checked luggage” situation.

LadySybilVimes

I was astonished to read about this, had no idea there was an exemption like this in place and I support the ban on them while they have discussions about a suitable alternative.

I certainly agree that you can’t eliminate all the risks in a school but you can reduce the risk of a child being stabbed by a knife by… not allowing knives to be brought to school. I agree with the pp that comparison to being glassed in a pub was a poor one. Schools have an entirely different duty of care than pubs and there are many things that adults do that children cannot. Wouldn’t there also be a legal risk to the department if they allow children to bring weapons to school and another child is harmed?

The argument about one incident in 50 years isn’t that compelling to me. Fifty years ago the Sikh community was smaller than it is now and there would be fewer children with these knives in school. How many incidents need to take place before it’s okay to change the policy? For me, one is more than enough.

MizHops

I’d love to know how many kids we’re actually talking about? Anyone have any idea?

CallMeAl

A better analogy might be getting rid of trees at all schools because they have injured a kid.

If it’s taken 50 years for it to happen, I doubt we’d raze all trees to the gound.