Harassment by men?

CallMeAl

Thought I might get your thoughts on these videos

The Guardian article posted on The Site That Will Not Be Named discusses it, but I wanted to get people’s reactions to the videos themselves.

I think my curiosity is around that I wouldn’t have seen these sort of interactions as harassment as a young girl. In fact, I went out briefly with a guy who more or less did this (came to take our chair at a pub and decided instead to stay and chat us up). He was a nice enough guy. I also quite happily had conversations with guys who approached me at random places (library or whatever). Occasionally they asked me out, and were respectful when turned down, and I found it flattering, not creepy.

I mean obviously we can’t see the guy in this, he could have been threatening and scary, and the girl did seem uncomfortable and he didn’t really tune into that. But I was also reading about the roles expected of guys and the difficulty of often being expected to be the initiator, and how some of them find it really vulnerable, and certainly many will not be that good at it and it will come out clumsy or misattuned.

Maybe I’m just old fashioned and programmed to think stuff that is not ok, is actually not that bad. That’s why I’m posting here I guess, I wanted to see what other people’s reactions were to seeing these videos.

Chic-n-Stu

CallMeAl

The ‘quite happily’ part is one of the keys here - at no stage does this poor girl look happy about any of it, she’s very clearly nervous and uncomfortable and he even acknowledges that, so I’m not sure why his creepy arse gets the benefit of the doubt. She told him early on in the encounter that she didn’t say he could sit there, but he ignored that and stayed right where he was until he realised that he was being recorded. Let’s chew that one over for a second - she told him she didn’t say he could sit there and he commented that he could see her hesitancy so clearly he knew that his presence was unwanted but he only left when he realised that he was being observed. None of that says good things about his intent or his willingness to respect her wishes.

The other part that stood out to me was that she was obviously interacting with her phone or laptop before he interrupted, so he’s charged in there completely cold because he decided he was entitled to her attention rather than responding to fluttering eyelashes and meaningful looks across the room as you would in a more balanced, respectful encounter.

Lastly, he also sounds much older than she does which amps up the creep factor because so many of us have been there, endured that with these shitty predatory guys who target girls who are too nervous and socialised to be too polite to shut them down. It’s a power thing.

The Myth of the Male Bumbler goes into more detail about the excuses we make for men in these and worse scenarios. Tl;dr they know exactly what they’re doing.

WidowWyncke

I only watched the start but I found that uncomfortable watching.

She obviously didn’t want an interaction and he persevered.

As someone who was hit on continuously by older men, including married,I felt her pain.

ETA: I know he may not have been older but that is my gut feeling.

Klara

I wouldn’t have classed that interaction as harassment either, he left quite quickly. I understand her feeling nervous though, it’s the not knowing how they will react when rejected, and if it will turn to harrassment etc.

WidowWyncke

Things can get unpleasant really quickly and you never know when that will happen.

Blue86

Nope. Creepy. Not necessarily harassment but clearly unwanted, and she was doing her best to show disinterest without being blatant (which is a risk all on its own, as there’s no knowing how he would react).

I’m sure he told all his mates he was “just trying to be nice and have a conversation” but that’s not a conversation, she’s just being cautiously polite while trying not to engage

She was clearly sat alone in the middle of something, and he should have got the hint straight away.

Men are not entitled to women’s time just because they’re “being nice”

LL55

Her discomfort and disinterest was immediately obvious - so yeh I think he was rude (intrusive beyond someone’s clear boundaries) and clueless. He probably didn’t cross into harassment in my opinion only because he did leave albeit after repeated hints.

I’m conflicted because some people really suck at reading social cues, but at the same time that’s not her fault and women put themselves at risk being too direct.

On second thoughts having read the article and rewatched it yeh I think he was a creep. He didn’t leave when he first noticed and said she seemed hesitant. Only when she revealed she was recording. He didn’t care about her feelings, he cared about being recorded.

Heyho2

I was such an awkward young thing. At a pub fine, but I would have found this really uncomfortable. Just being out doing my thing im not really keen to be chatted up. I can’t flirt and it sounds stupid, but I didn’t learn to say ‘no’ until my 30’s. So I think it’s maybe a little bit about the culture you’re brought up in? Dunno? But I hate watching this video.

catbus

One of the first things she said was “oh I didn’t mean you can sit there”. He clearly should have buggered off then. He’s a creep.

wannabefree

catbus

Yep and I suspect if we could’ve seen him, he would’ve given the appearance that he was actually asking to take the chair, manipulating her into saying he could have it, which he then used to manipulate her into agreeing he could sit there by admitting no one else was.

It was dodgy as.

DYNAR

I showed this to my kids on Friday and both could recognise immediately that she didn’t feel comfortable with his actions, they are 9 and 11.

He only left when she said she was going live and he made a point of creepily mentioning he saw she was alone.

I agree to he very deliberately tried to make her feel like she’d misconstrued his question when we all would have read that as “can I take this chair away from this table?”

NightHawk

Chic-n-Stu

Love that article (and your post!).

Morrigan

I thought he was creepy. She was obviously freaked out. Whether she should be SOOOO freaked out at that point is another question, but seeing as she was, he should have just moved away when it was clear she didn’t expect or want him to sit with her. Saying ‘is this chair taken’ instead of ‘can I sit here’ is a nasty move.

PuddingPlease

Morrigan

I agree. I don’t think she was in mortal danger but he was behaving in a way that was genuinely antisocial, that can be very scary and confronting because it shows that the person who is in your space does not care about social rules and norms. I would have been alarmed too.

My suspicion is that he had mates watching who he was trying to impress so he deliberately dragged out time so that it would look like he was having more success in chatting her up. In that context, her fear is even more understandable, the friend calling out from the balcony would have been a big relief.